tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post1622488143563412580..comments2022-04-09T00:31:22.253-07:00Comments on SongLiedMélodie: Paris Exposition 1889Milagro Vargashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06214003518842959245noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-19603934609276755892019-05-13T22:33:02.311-07:002019-05-13T22:33:02.311-07:00The one thing that I feel like we often lose sight...The one thing that I feel like we often lose sight of is how so much music that we have come to know and love and think of as classic, was once "new." In watching the video and thinking about what kind of music was being created around the time of the world's fair it's so refreshing to hear how they thought these new types of eastern music, with which Debussy was so fascinated, was almost grotesque when they first heard it. It makes me ponder the question as to whether or not so much new music that I hear today and think of as a little outside the box will one day be part of the canon of future generations. How will the influences of war and political unrest in the 21st century be seen 100 years or so from now and how will they shape the composers of the future? Just some food for thought.Trevornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-82045466178259741852019-05-13T13:30:31.904-07:002019-05-13T13:30:31.904-07:00I never considered the influence of gamelan on Deb...I never considered the influence of gamelan on Debussy's music! I guess I never thought about the Javanese village at the Exposition Universelle and that Debussy would have heard it. But he definitely uses and imitates the shimmery quality of the gamelan instruments in his piano music. It makes much more sense now!Soniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04080711194037205827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-8094820488489800712019-05-13T07:00:04.553-07:002019-05-13T07:00:04.553-07:00In my freshman music in world cultures class, we d...In my freshman music in world cultures class, we did a unit on Javanese gamelan, and I was really drawn to the sound. It's absolutely incredible! And the history and culture behind it makes it that much cooler. We also talked about Debussy and gamelan in my sophomore music history class, and while I can see where Debussy was trying to go (and do understand the difficulty of trying to have a Western-tuning system tuned piano play the gamelan tuning systems), I felt that it didn't capture the spirit enough. However, Debussy's fascination with gamelan and attempt to capture it gave new standing to non-Western music traditions in Western art-music.Marjorie S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16520606032816670559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-29109925000479409002019-05-12T23:34:20.480-07:002019-05-12T23:34:20.480-07:00It is so interesting to listen to the Javanese gam...It is so interesting to listen to the Javanese gamelan which I never heard before. But it sounds too strange to me, to be honest, I personally don't like this kind of music, but I believe it has a bearing on Debussy's music. Actually, after listening to the Javanese gamelan, I start to like Debussy's hazy beauty. <br />Yaoyunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17961509227899311500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-23935973261572429572017-05-15T00:03:14.860-07:002017-05-15T00:03:14.860-07:00What a time to be alive! The amount of exposure fr...What a time to be alive! The amount of exposure from a broad range of cultures that Debussy was able to receive right in Paris is incredible. While I was a tad familiar with these influences Debussy had, the extent of which was really brought to life through the pictures and imagery presented. I would have loved to have been at the exposition of 1889. It was wonderful to hear the reading of the letter send by Elizabeth telling her stories of visiting the exposition; it was also interesting to note her reaction to the music specifically. For gamelan music clearly had its influences on Debussy and what we consider the French style in a 21st century context, but I wonder if Elizabeth's reaction was similar to sentiments held by many people of the time.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10629281916696406316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-13620854554053691162017-05-14T23:17:11.426-07:002017-05-14T23:17:11.426-07:00How wonderful! I have been to Paris a handful of t...How wonderful! I have been to Paris a handful of times and have always appreciated the history of the city, however, I did not know about all the festivities involved in the 1889 Exposition (aside from the Tour Eiffel). I had to look up "Javanese" to find out from where this ethnic group originated (Indonesia). I have heard Eastern influence in Debussy's music (whole tone scales, etc) but never really understood how it came about, so the post and film were very insightful. What an exciting time for Debussy and many other French composers and poets to be creating. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09876932994551415352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-61847055749059481712017-05-14T13:56:39.843-07:002017-05-14T13:56:39.843-07:00I really enjoyed the gamelan music. I find music f...I really enjoyed the gamelan music. I find music from different cultures to be fascinating. The instruments used are beautiful and ornate in their stylings. The Gender is probably my favorite. The sound of this instrument is almost soothing and the design is beautiful. Here is a video of the Gender being played: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJuaouAtedg<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06965795904217163896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-60203811794671814122017-05-14T12:56:30.091-07:002017-05-14T12:56:30.091-07:00This was absolutely fascinating, and I had no idea...This was absolutely fascinating, and I had no idea how controversial the Eiffel Tower was upon its construction, nor of the influence of Javanese music on Debussy's composition style... a style we now think of as so characteristically French! I loved hearing the translation of the letter the woman Elizabeth sent to her sister from the world's fair, it really brought to life how novel these exibitions were, and was a fascinating peak into the experience. <br /><br />I found a beautiful video of older style of Javanese belly dancing, perhaps something similar to what Debussy may have seen himself. Very interesting to see the shapes they make with their bodies, circular, flowing shapes with constantly flowing movement and hear that in his arpeggiations and harmonic fluidity. <br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko1FsDGO_G8Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00065762252228265627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-63179309962700261942017-05-13T21:10:04.682-07:002017-05-13T21:10:04.682-07:00A fascinating time in history and one of those spe...A fascinating time in history and one of those special "time and space" moments never to be recreated. Really, it seems as though the coming together of foreign cultures for the Exposition, the emergence of so many French inspired composers, along with the painters, writers, and poets, could have had no less an effect than what actually transpired with the genius of Debussy and other composers. It's one of those special moments that can occur within any culture with a leap forward of technology and cultural cross-fertilization. My years in Hawaii were fascinating for just this reason. An island in the middle of the Pacific was a melting pot for both European and Asian cultures to mix and the resulting fusion was fresh and unique. The Gamelan, by the way, is alive and well as a tool for living composers and performers in Hawaii.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09136176601916939434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-3422505794630164952015-05-11T14:20:01.168-07:002015-05-11T14:20:01.168-07:00What an interesting experiment in cultural exchang...What an interesting experiment in cultural exchange. Honestly, I think the most interesting part of the video was the narrators rejection of the music of the other countries. The 1889 world's fair was a groundbreaking moment in cultural exchange, and a huge step forward for multiculturality in the western world, but I was glad the video included that small moment of dissent, which I think is indicative of a lot of the cultural misunderstanding to come. It must have been thrilling to be a young composer, trying to avoid the german sound, to stumble upon all of this music that was unlike anything that had been heard in Europe at the time. Suddenly you would have been presented with this immense and overwhelming selection of traditions and aesthetics in which to wet your beak. I imagine it must have been invigorating. There is nothing quite like the unfamiliar to breathe life into an art form. April Phillipsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-84739568745334025232015-05-11T12:44:15.935-07:002015-05-11T12:44:15.935-07:00I agree with Maya that is interesting to hear the ...I agree with Maya that is interesting to hear the narrator of the video describe her fascination of the dancing yet a disgust for the music that accompanied the dancing. It makes me wonder if Debussy truly was of the minority in his fascination for these exotic sounds. Also, I had the opportunity to spent some time in Paris this past summer, and it seems to me that the city has a strong sense of sharing multiculturality, at least in its restaurant selections. Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671034464686286401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-19064155460902210242015-05-11T12:42:53.860-07:002015-05-11T12:42:53.860-07:00Everything about the world's fair was just fas...Everything about the world's fair was just fascinating! It was interesting to see how dancers were treated so differently in the east and the west. Western people were so impressed by the dancers' performance but indeed, the dancers were looked down upon in the east. Conniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02722786123444134873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-22540419221474669662015-05-11T09:33:14.449-07:002015-05-11T09:33:14.449-07:00I really enjoyed watching the video and looking at...I really enjoyed watching the video and looking at the photos of the world's fair. The voiceover was such an interesting window into the world of Paris at that time. I thought it was interesting that the woman was fascinated with how things looked but seemed affronted by the actual music coming from the east. An interesting contrast to Debussy who was so open and stimulated by the sounds he was hearing. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213771769862138169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-90682957132599035802015-05-09T19:48:56.523-07:002015-05-09T19:48:56.523-07:00I loved the video about the world's fair. I ca...I loved the video about the world's fair. I can only imagine the excitement one must have felt at meeting people and seeing culture from non-European areas. In addition to the sounds he heard, I wonder if Debussy felt a new sense of liberation to continue to explore the boundaries of "formal" composition. abbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04095205161106464027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-89900156701575270512013-05-13T10:45:33.929-07:002013-05-13T10:45:33.929-07:00Emily, the UO musicology department owns a slew of...Emily, the UO musicology department owns a slew of Javanese gamelans. I had the pleasure of observing a class conducted by Dr. Levy, even tinkering on the gamelans. It was exhilarating. I was fun to play the smaller gamelans, but the bigger once were mystifying. I can almost see how a young composer like Debussy searching for completely new sounds and nuances could be mesmerized by these exotic instruments from a far away land. The sounds must have been so foreign to his ears, yet the fluidity on the tone is still close to his native language. Vincenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15239933636855893060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-54561748208504002802013-05-12T20:10:05.738-07:002013-05-12T20:10:05.738-07:00Reading all the comments is almost as fascinating ...Reading all the comments is almost as fascinating as the post! I wonder if it's possible to recreate that sense of discovery in a world where, as Beverly mentioned, so much is at our fingertips? There's an excitement that comes with experiencing something firsthand as opposed to researching it through the internet. Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09108605810950263800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-70906947530004416482013-05-12T19:56:20.694-07:002013-05-12T19:56:20.694-07:00The gamelan music was very interesting and I reall...The gamelan music was very interesting and I really enjoyed listening and seeing how it is performed. <br /><br />What really interested me about the World's Fair is that the Eiffel Tower was built as the gateway for it. It must have been so exciting to see that whole lawn full of people and tents with exotic things to see and share. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04038607953414089701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-59702815343574718922013-05-12T13:08:43.846-07:002013-05-12T13:08:43.846-07:00I actually wonder if two later Debussy piano piece...I actually wonder if two later Debussy piano pieces were inspired by this Egyptian connection... I don't know for sure, but now that I have seen how diverse was the 1889 exposition, it wouldn't surprise me...<br /><br />Those are the pieces: from Epigraphies Antiques (1914), originally for piano 4 hands.<br /><br />4 - Pour la danseuse aux crotales (reminds me of the letter mentioning the finger cymbals) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-i0F0tXUGs<br /><br />5 - Pour l'Egyptienne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyEwTkVEH80<br /><br />The scales used (specially on the higher registers) are obviously not the whole-tone, so maybe Debussy borrowed them from (or was inspired by) the Egyptian instead? <br /><br />I totally wish that we had another of those fairs... I can't help but wonder how much work was required on the backstage of that exposition... If it is hard to put such an event together nowadays, imagine more than 100 years ago... Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11928915607945788740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-53224886313263493612013-05-11T11:08:53.383-07:002013-05-11T11:08:53.383-07:00I can only imagine how exciting it must have been ...I can only imagine how exciting it must have been to have been at the 1889 Paris Exposition. To see side by side the future and the past, the familiar and the exotic. We take for granted today the global connectivity of a post-internet world. Just imagine how fantastic it would be for these people to be exposed to distant cultures which they otherwise never would have seen. It is really no wonder that this experience made such an impact on Debussy. I don't know if I agree that Debussy was anti-German since he was fascinated with Wagner's Tristan prelude, but I do think it's true that he was very interested in the exotic. I think that the Javanese influence is easier to hear in his piano pieces than it is in his songs. Javanese Gamelan music is very interesting (I've been fortunate to hear it performed live with authentic instruments.) but I wonder what it was about this music in particular that struck Debussy so profoundly when there surely must have been other exotic musics to be heard there. For example, the music that accompanied the bellydancers in the Egyptian exhibit must have been very different to 19th century European ears.Beverlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09702466005839384991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-41453027390443535282009-05-11T14:09:00.000-07:002009-05-11T14:09:00.000-07:00In a way, having been to Paris for a short vacatio...In a way, having been to Paris for a short vacation once, I don't understand why Debussy didn't write more music about his own native land. He seems to have been mostly inspired by the lands of others, orientalism. When the World's Fair came to Paris, it really was a complex blending and gathering of ideas, but perhaps everyone already knew so much of Paris that the interesting nature of the Montmartre district or the many fascinating cathedrals like St. Chapelle were not really considered of much notice. <br />Beside that, the confluence of Asian and African art and music must have really been astounding to the civilized world, especially considering the false conceptions that had been fostered in art and literature for much of the past couple centuries with orientalism and the simple lack of exposure to the rest of the world running rampant. I had the privilege of being a gong-bearer in the Gamelan ensemble at Montana State a couple years ago. The program there is under the direction of Dr. Alan Leech who has studied that music in Asia with a master of that art. We have some works by him in the library, by the by. The intonation is fascinating because they intentionally tune all of their like instruments in quarter tones to create a shimmer when two instruments are in unison. In essence, the wide open spaces that you hear in the music are actually filled with all of the colliding overtones. My favorite sound is the big gong, though! Talk about a sound that emanates from the earth! That seeming connection to the elements is what seems to me to be an important part of Debussy's style. His music is almost always comparable to some elemental force like the trickling of water, the sound of the waves, the gentle breezes, etc. Whereas Gamelan music uses the mis-tuning to create that shimmer of overtones, Debussy writes those shimmering overtones into his music to create these wonderful harmonies!Derek Larsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-80882315671086496952009-05-11T13:36:00.000-07:002009-05-11T13:36:00.000-07:00It's been interesting listening to the harmonies o...It's been interesting listening to the harmonies of Debussy in comparison to the French music we've studied up until this point in the class. I'm also doing extensive research on jazz for my masters project, and hearing the connections is brilliant!<br />Seeing the architecture of many places in France also puts the music into perspective.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08755196182431270316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-38067197965674893112009-05-11T13:30:00.000-07:002009-05-11T13:30:00.000-07:00Gamelan seems like something that is significantly...Gamelan seems like something that is significantly harder than it appears. Each part looks simple, but in the context of the whole I could see holding your own as an ensemble member as a challenge. This music makes it evident where Debussy, and some other French composers for that matter, may have gotten some of the inspiration for their more texture-like piano writing.<br />The orientalist fascination is something that I have found very enjoyable with French music. It is nationalistic yet progressive and very absorbing of outside sources, while a lot of German music was so pointedly intolerant in its nationalism.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05886465595589804025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-44746802827625880942009-05-11T11:01:00.000-07:002009-05-11T11:01:00.000-07:00In the video link about the exposition I found it ...In the video link about the exposition I found it interesting how the letter writer contemplated what the lives of the Javanese dancers might have been like in their own countries. With L'Exposition Universelle we start to see cultural elements of non Western ways of life take on a more legitimate identity in the minds of Westerners. This person to person contact actually got people thinking of humans from the other side of the world as real people from a world worth exploring, rather than just strange "others", the identity of whom had often been watered down by pop culture.<br /><br />THIS is what would make life as an artist so exhilarating during and after the exposition. Rather than simplified imitations of other cultures, the artist is now faced with a hands on, (relatively) authentic encounter with completely new sounds and movements, as well as being supplied with an entire society that is excited to hear more. As I have observed in my own studies and work lately, the most thrilling musical experience is one from which I come away feeling like I have permission to break more of the rules and boundaries that have been placed on me as a musician and performer.<br /><br />When a brilliant composer like Debussy experienced all of these sounds, which functioned outside of all the compositional approaches he had been taught, he must have been overwhelmingly inspired. I think his ability to absorb, process, and musically express so much of what he was experiencing speaks highly of his mental and compositional capacity. Truly a thrilling time to be alive. One in which artistic expression must have been a necessary part of life in order to fully explore and understand all that one was experiencing!SinginChefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11379450474884508551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-88308828146592655612009-05-11T00:50:00.000-07:002009-05-11T00:50:00.000-07:00I think the influence of the Gamelan on Debussy is...I think the influence of the Gamelan on Debussy is very interesting. I believe it had an influence over him in a harmonic and melodic sense, but also in a very structural and sonic sense. The music of the gamelan does not develop in the same way that Western music develops. The metallaphones create this wonderful composite rhythms which generate a hypnotic atmosphere. The gamelan becomes kind of its own force an and develops gradually to a point where it peaks and then the energy slowly dissipates. I believe Debussy used similar structural ideas in the piano works like his prelude, "Voiles" or "Pagodes" from Estampes. The structural division of sections in a composition become more blurred so the sections flow into one another more fluidly. This could also be related to his idea of music sounding structurally improvised. A composer that I believe illustrated this more literally was Gyorgy Ligeti in his 7th piano etude titled Galamb Borong. It translates to "broken gamelan". This work, sounds to me like the rise and fall of the Gamelan. One interesting thing about it is that each hand plays exclusively in it's own whole tone scale. The use of both whole tone scales frees Ligeti from the limitations of only using one whole tone scale (you can hear this limitation in "Voiles").Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09465492784916679784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3749554298940237935.post-25392128469767900222009-05-10T23:49:00.000-07:002009-05-10T23:49:00.000-07:00I found some recordings of Debussy playing his own...I found some recordings of Debussy playing his own music on YouTube for those who are interested. He apparently recorded some of his songs with soprano Mary Garden in 1904 (These are acoustic recordings!!). Here are several from Ariettes Oubliées:<br /><br />Green: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoAif_pFX88<br /><br />Il pleure dans mon couer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR6x5psC5_w<br /><br />L'ombre des arbres:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_fLKofo36A<br /><br />Debussy also recorded a number of his piano preludes on piano rolls. Before the advent of acoustical recording, a system was devised to capture performances on rolls of paper with perforations in it (player pianos). As early acoustical recordings were not great in quality, these were often preferred and many composers actually recorded their works on piano rolls. These then have to be "replayed" on a player piano and can be recorded acoustically. Information about note duration, pedaling and dynamics are captured, but it's questionable how accurately every nuance is captured--furthermore the tone quality is liable to suffer, but these can give great insight into the composers manner of playing. Here are several of Debussy's preludes played by him (1913):<br /><br />Minstrels:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVzDh6QU7kk<br /><br />Le vent dans la pleine:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWMyWPHIw5A<br /><br />La Cathedrale Engloutie:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfSBddhFvyAUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10396789897270491322noreply@blogger.com